After moving house, I started hanging the art as it came out of the boxes, strolling through the apartment to find a nice spot. A lot of the small pieces are in the office, where I can see them, others are in the living room or in a dark spot in the hallway.

I made sure none of them is exposed to direct sunlight and the delicate items have been placed in the darkest rooms with either no windows or windows facing north.

Find more pictures at flickr.

We are back with the second part of the conversation with Tsjalling from the Netherlands.

Autograph by Jake and Dinos Chapman, from Tsjalling’s collection.

You have started something called “The 100,- EUR collection”. You want to buy an artwork under 100,- EUR every month for the duration of one year. You are about half way through … tell us about that.

This collection is a follow-up of some bar talk with IC co-founder Christian Schwarm. We talked about a new project after your Collector’s Duel and this was one of them. Sorry for nicking the idea!

You’re welcome, Tsjalling, I’ll just be nicking one of yours in the future …

My budget to spend on art is not very large, so it’s either buy one or two larger works a year, or this. I’m a bit of a shop-a-holic, so trying to buy something new every month is better for me.

My girlfriend Mieke and I search the internet to find artists we like. Nowadays a lot of young artists have an online shop, so that way we find great stuff from all over the world, some even of quite famous artists. But it does have to fit into my collection. But now being halfway I find it more difficult than I first thought though. It’s hard to find something you really love on first sight.

“A trip on Oct 22, 2009 in Turkey” by David Horvitz from Tsjalling’s collection

I find it hard to agree with that. I find something worth buying almost every other week. What makes it difficult for you? Is it the problem of actually finding things or is it difficult to fall in love with something you see on the web but not in real life?

There is so much on the internet. I sometimes find it hard to see the quality in things. Maybe as you say: it’s hard to fall in love with something you don’t see. And I don’t really collect artist’s books or records like you do, so that’s a difference as well.

You are also listing the prices you have paid for the works. Some collectors make funny faces when asked what they have spent, even in that price range and claim it has nothing to with money. Why do you think that is?

Art has to do with money, but the experience of it hasn’t. Works that are affordable can have as great an influence on you as can very expensive things, but the best things tend to have a very high price. Never mind that though, you can go see them in a museum.

To me it doesn’t really matter what I paid for a work, but I want to show starting collectors that you can get great stuff for a nice price. And people did contact me about where I got some of the work, so it really works! I did hesitate about putting the prices there though, because of the artists. Although most things I bought come from their own internet stores, I’m not sure whether they like it when people think their work is maybe too cheap. Maybe it could put more advanced buyers of.

Why people don’t want to talk prices I don’t know. Maybe they think it is showing off their wealth. But who cares? Most people that collect know what prices you pay for certain work, so everyone will know anyway.

You said you want to encourage starting collectors by showing them that the price range for great art starts at “affordable”. Would you say you actively want to help younger collectors? Is this something maybe more collectors should put an effort in?

Yes, I could say I’d like to turn other people into collectors I guess. You can get a lot of joy out of buying art that is different from seeing art just in museums. You have to think about things like: do you want to live with it, is it worth what your paying for it, are you going to like this in some time?
And I do think it is a good thing if more experienced collectors help guide younger collectors, but I’m a bit sceptical on courses in collecting. What do people learn there? How to look, what to buy? I don’t really know, but I think it is important to start buying with your gut, not to much your brain. Don’t be unsure about what you buy, if you like it, it’s good!

Usually experienced or “successful” collectors (who are most often well equipped with funds) get asked to give advice to young collectors. Which is fair enough, but let’s turn it upside down a little. You have been collecting for some time now, in your own ways. What kind of advice would you give to a “senior” collector?

Keep on buying work by artists that are just starting. Instead of spending 30.000,- EUR on your fifth Jonathan Meese or Rineke Dijkstra make ten or maybe even twenty young artists happy with buying their work. They need it more, not only financially, but also as recognition and as encouragement to go on making art. I know quite a few young artists, and they have a really hard time, and there are a lot, even good ones, that quit after a few years because of lack of support from collectors: they need sales to get into and keep their galleries, they need galleries to get exhibitions in museums, articles in magazines and so on.

Let’s be specific. Could you give us three artists you would suggest an experienced collector should buy?

Let’s stay in The Netherlands for that ok?

A great young sculptor from Germany who works in Amsterdam is David Jablonowski (→ link)

I love the drawings of Marc Nagtzaam. Great geometrical compositions in pencil. (→ link)

Hans Hoekstra. Very sensitive paintings, just won the Royal Price for Painting in Holland. (→ link)

A nice selection for everyone.

I have been interviewed by you once and I know you can ask tricky questions. What is the question I haven’t asked you? And bare in mind that it’s you who has to answer it. No wait … forget that part again…

Tommi: The first time we met, you were proud that you didn’t own a car, so you could spend all your money on art. But now you do own a car. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical? Are you spending less on art now?

Me: Well, when we first met I didn’t have a drivers license either, so easy talking! I own the car to get more experience in driving, and it allows me to go to galleries and museums out of town. So actually it’s much better for my collection. And I haven’t bought less art. I just stopped buying the large number of CDs, DVDs and books I did before …

Tsjalling’s car

So not mp3 is killing the music industry, art is! What would you like me to ask the next collector?

I read that for more accomplished collectors the buying is more important than the actual owning of the artwork. Do you still get the same kick out of owning and enjoying new art? Is the hunt really more important than the catch?

Well, thank you Tsjalling for your time and your stories. I shall now go out and find an “accomplished collector” to get an answer to that question.

Tsjalling Venema is what one would probably call a “young collector”. I guess you’d be able to call him that in twenty years time. I can not imagine his personality to drop that atmosphere of youth just because the earth keeps revolving around the sun. He is from the Netherlands and if you ever get the chance to meet him, do! But beware, his passion and excitement are quite contagious …

Here is part 1 with pictures:
(Text only over at IC: → http://bit.ly/bI9iZ3)

Well, Tsjalling, the two collectors before you have asked two questions. One regarded the situation of which artwork you would put back in the fire to collect insurance money for and Randi asks “Why did you buy your first work of art?”

Which question would you rather answer? And then please tell us why you bought your first artwork, this one is somewhat mandatory …

I guess I’ll have to answer both of them then…

When I was fifteen, I started collecting autographs of famous and less famous artists, because I thought I couldn’t afford buying real artworks. This way I met a local artist [Lode Pemmelaar] who had the same hobby. We became friends and when I ran into one of his (cheaper) silkscreens in a gallery, I bought it. After this I found out that you could find artworks at a reasonable price, so I started buying more and more.

“Untitled” - Lode Pemmelaar

The work I’d leave in my home when on fire is a photo by Wim Bosch. Definitely not because I don’t like it, on the contrary! But it is a work with a large edition and I know I can still buy a new one. I’d leave it because I put a wrong frame on it. I’m friends with the artist now, and he likes his work to be stuck on aluminum without glass in front of it. Not the way I framed it. So maybe this way I could put it right.

The wrong frame.

In the Netherlands, young collectors can get very cheap loans to buy art. What’s up with that? How does that work?

With the KunstKoopRegeling (art buying scheme → link) you can get an interest free loan. This is only in selected galleries though, but most larger galleries participate in it. The government funded Mondriaan Fund pays the interest for you, and you have to make a deposit of only 10 percent. It’s possible to get a lone from 450,- EUR to 7000,- EUR , so also experienced collectors can buy works of art.

Now that’s nice, to allow the experienced collectors to participate as well, isn’t it? Did you ever buy your art on such a loan?

No, I didn’t, because you have to have a fixed contract with your employer and I didn’t have one until a year ago. (This part of the scheme sucks! The strange thing is that you can get a loan if you’re on government benefits or as a student.)

How about a proper “stipend” for collectors? Here is an idea: Why not shift all the arts funds of a country from museums to stipends for collectors? Is that a good idea or a stupid idea? I can’t decide …

First something else: I heard that in Germany you don’t have to pay taxes for art, in The Netherlands you do. It would be a great idea to make buying art tax free, although I am not sure it would really make a difference, because the taxes aren’t that high (6%).

Actually, you do pay taxes on art. Most of it comes in at 7% but, at least as far as I understand it, your Wim Bosch edition for example would clock in at 19%. Why did I bring this up? I don’t even like the topic! And there still lingers the idea of a “stipend for collectors”. I have a hunch it is a bad idea …

Museums are a great way to explore art if you are new to it, they are a feeding ground for “newbies” more than galleries are. They are also a place where artists can present themselves to bigger audiences. Their influence on the general public is very important. Collectors don’t have this influence. They are good for the production of art (read: the artist), but not so for the showing of it, as most work stays “at home”.

Then there’s the question of who you should give these stipends to? Who will buy what art? Sorry to say, most people don’t have a very accomplished taste, they go for things they understand, as you can see for example of the winner of the popular Dutch Artist of the Year election, Ans Markus (→ link) Most people wouldn’t vote for one of my favourite artists, B.C. Epker (→ link) , although his work is owned by more museums. Do you think most people would buy a work by Sol LeWitt or Joseph Beuys? I don’t think so.

So let’s keep those stipends coming to the museums, so the general public will see these artist we collectors care about!

Wow, your last statement made a knot in my brain. I was actually thinking of giving the money to collectors who have already shown that they have taste. But then you would need a jury or something to decide whether you, Tsjalling, qualify or not … this is too complicated. I agree. Let’s give the money to museums. At least then we can complain about them buying boring stuff.

In the second part of the conversation, Tsjalling talks about his “The 100,- EUR Collection” and responds to the question what kind of advice he would give an experienced collector …